Why Digital Marketing is Better Than EVER

“If you’re doing it right, you’re introducing your product to people who didn’t even know that they wanted it.” In this episode of Marketing Mistakes (And How to Avoid Them), Stacy Jones and I discuss the doom and gloom hanging over the digital marketing world. Changes in the Google and Facebook advertising ecosystem have agencies and businesses running for the hills like Chicken Little, screaming that “digital is dead.”

I couldn’t disagree more. Digital is far from dead. There will always be changes, but as long as you can roll with them, direct response digital marketing is as powerful as it ever has been, if not more so. Remember, Facebook and Google have an incentive for their advertisers to make money. That’s the only way they make money. As long as that incentive exists, digital marketing will continue to be a gold mine.

We also discuss:

• Why my dream Facebook ad has only one word of copy.
• The biggest mistake companies and agencies make with their digital ad strategy.
• The importance of niching down not only by industry but by the specific solution the industry needs.
• Why it’s easier to be profitable on Facebook with a $1,000 product than a $15 product.

About the Show: Stacy Jones is the host of Marketing Mistakes (and How to Avoid Them).

Full Transcript

_{Stacy Jones: You know how I’m always sharing the tools our team uses to help our agency run more smoothly? Today I’m sharing another tool for podcasting. We just moved over to Anchor after having our first 250 podcasts posted and distributed on Libsyn. Anchor is a podcasting platform by Spotify and it intrigued me as a solution for monetization of content and sponsorship. It also has some cool tools for those of you who haven’t started a podcast yet to help promote your business that allow you to easily record and edit your podcast right from your phone or computer.}

_{It also acts as a distributor allowing listeners just like you the ability to tune in from Spotify, Apple Podcast, and other platforms. And guess what? It’s free. Yup, super cool. You might as well just check it out and maybe you’ll find that podcasting is your next go-to marketing tool--or at least a hobby. Download the free Anchor app or go to anchor.fm to get started. Again, just visit anchor.fm to give a try today.}

_{Welcome to Marketing Mistakes (and How to Avoid Them). I’m Stacy Jones, the founder of influencer marketing and branded content agency Hollywood Branded. This podcast provides brand marketers a learning platform for top experts to share their insights and knowledge on topics which make a direct impact on your business today. While it is impossible to be well-versed on every topic and strategy that can improve bottom line results, my goal is to help you avoid making costly mistakes of time, energy, or money whether you’re doing an DIY approach or hiring an expert to help. Let’s begin today’s discussion.}

_{Announcer: Welcome to Marketing Mistakes (and How to Avoid Them). Here’s your host:  Stacy Jones.}

_{Stacy Jones: Welcome to Marketing Mistakes (and How to Avoid Them). I’m Stacy Jones and I’m so happy to be here with you all today and want to give a very warm welcome to Dylan Ogline. Dylan is the founder of Ogline Digital and is a leading expert in direct response advertising and business growth. He’s also created a digital agency ownership training program to help teach others how to have more freedom and live a life with purpose and meaning.}

_{Dylan’s training programs are designed to take the guesswork out of building an agency and remove all of the unknowns that stop so many people from starting their own businesses. Today, Dylan’s going to be sharing his advice on direct response digital marketing. We’ll learn what works from his perspective, what should be avoided, and how some businesses miss the mark. Dylan, welcome, so happy to have you here today.}

_{Dylan Ogline: Thanks for having me, Stacy, glad to be here.}

_{Stacy Jones: Of course. Before we dive into direct response, and just digital advertising in general, and all those good things. Can you tell our listeners a little bit more about you? What got you here today? Because you have an interesting story because you are a high school dropout I read.}

_{Dylan Ogline: Yes, that I am. How did I get here? I started my first business when I was 14--13, 14. And this is back whenever Google adwords was just starting out. My business was selling cellphones. Flipping cellphones on eBay and then I had, it wasn’t Shopify, this was pre-Shopify. This was a long time ago. I was flipping cellphones. I’d buy them from a wholesaler in Europe, ship them to the United States, and then sell them for like a 10%, 20% markup, something like that.}

_{But this was back in the beginning of Google adwords. I don’t even think Facebook had started yet, so this is like 2003, 2004 somewhere around there. And I just started playing around with it and it just fascinated me because it was this game-changing idea of marketing. And I had read a couple marketing books at the same time. Did a little bit with my business and then that business ended up getting shut done because my merchant account provider found out that I was under the age of 18. I think that happened around tax time they found out this guy’s a little too young for this.}

_{They shut me down and I spent the next 12 years bouncing around between different business ideas, getting absolutely nowhere. The main thing that I did for income essentially was agency work. I was doing websites, logos, banner designs. Banner designs used to be a huge thing. But there was always like this marketing backdrop.}

_{And finally in it was like 2016 or so was getting absolutely nowhere, but spoke with a long-term mentor, scrapped all the business projects I was working on, focused on one single service, which was the digital marketing management, and spent the next three years getting really, really good at that and scaling my agency up, and here we are. Did I do that in under like a minute you think?}

_{Stacy Jones: It’s pretty close. Yeah. Of course.}

_{Dylan Ogline: That’s the journey.}

_{Stacy Jones: You literally went high school dropout, selling phones where you were making money, but you were told you were too young so you had to stop that, to then trying to find yourself for quite some time, before you stumbled upon and decided to sink your teeth into digital advertising and marketing.}

_{Dylan Ogline: That summarizes 17 years right there, yes.}

_{Stacy Jones: It was a quick 17 years, I’m sure.}

_{Dylan Ogline: Yes.}

_{Stacy Jones: What is it that you love about digital advertising? Besides the fact that you’re like, “This is it. I did it, and it centered me, and I have a business, and it’s going strong, and we consistently hit seven figures every year,” which is phenomenal. You’ve worked really hard to be able to get there and do that. But why do you love digital marketing so much?}

_{Dylan Ogline: Once I got really good at it, the part that I probably enjoyed the most was if you’re doing it right it’s different. The big way it’s different from traditional media like a TV ad or something like that where you’re almost trying to convince somebody to use your product or service, if you’re doing Facebook, Google, YouTube ads, et cetera, if you’re doing them right, you’re introducing your product or service to people who didn’t even know that they wanted it.}

_{Like I’ve talked about this before, if you’re getting comments on your Facebook ads like, “I’m so glad I found this product or service whatever,” like that’s when you know you’re getting it right. Now that I’ve gotten really good at that, just I enjoyed that so much, being able to introduce products and services to people that didn’t even know that they wanted them.}

_{I would say before that what I liked about it so much was it gave a business the ability to purchase growth. If you had your Facebook ad, if you had your Google ads, if you had all those things dialed in and figured out, growing wasn’t a question, it was just increase your ad spend. Then you could manage other parts of your business and just scale things up. That’s a game-changer for many digital businesses and even brick and mortar businesses it’s an absolute game-changer.}

_{Stacy Jones: And do you think that still holds true today with all the changes going on with Facebook and how with cookies, and Google, and all the massive marketplace shifts that are happening right now, do you think dialing in on your digital is still the number one way to drive your growth?}

_{Dylan Ogline: Unquestionably. More so every single day. Yeah.}

_{Stacy Jones: And what are some of the impacts that you’ve seen lately with changes in laws?}

_{Dylan Ogline: Changes in laws did you say?}

_{Stacy Jones: Laws, or restrictions, or how Apple changing the landscape, Google’s changing the landscape, they’re not allowing--again, cookies being one of the biggest issues being able to laser in on your demographic and have so much insight. Now they’re pulling back a lot of the detail and data. Do you think that’s impacting people?}

_{Dylan Ogline: Is it impacting people? Unquestionably. For us, the way I do marketing I have built my agency in such a way that those things almost don’t matter. It’s built into the processes, the systems, and the way we do things that things are always going to change. It was iOS 14 or whatever the big Apple update, I think that’s what it was. People were panicking. They were like, “Facebook ads aren’t going to work anymore.” And I fundamentally believe that will changes happening? Will targeting changes happen? Will Facebook change the way that you input ads or whatever? All those things they’re different now than what they were a year ago and they will continue to change, and change, and change.}

_{But the fundamental law remains that these companies are incentivized for you to succeed. Facebook’s not going to make money if its advertisers aren’t making money. Google is not going to make money. They’re going to run out of money if people aren’t making money by advertising on their platforms. You as the advertiser or as the agency might need to change the way that you do things. But this just like if you throw up an ad on Facebook it’s going to reach fatigue, and you’ve got to create a new ad. You’ve got to come up with new copy. It’s just a change you’ve got to make.}

_{And that’s my philosophy on marketing and I apply that to my agency so when Apple changes things it’s just another change, we’ve got to deal with. But the baseline still is, is that these companies are incentivized to see you succeed, and to see you grow, and to see you make money off of advertising on their platforms. As long as that is still there, digital marketing’s definitely the way to go.}

_{Stacy Jones: I fully agree with you. I think it’s interesting how many people are heading to the hills, and screaming from the tops of the mountaintops that, “Life is over as we know it as digital advertisers.” When there’s no way that Facebook, and Apple, and Google are cutting off their noses to spite their own faces on this.}

_{Dylan Ogline: Yeah. I would argue one other thing. Even if the laws change, like the federal government gets involved in these things, like Facebook’s going to figure it out. Unless Facebook shuts down, Facebook advertising is still going to work. Unless Google shuts down, Google ads are still going to work. The laws might change, there might be some law that YouTube ads are limited to 15 seconds. Like that would be stupid, but it might happen, and if it happens, it’s like we’ll just have to deal with it. YouTube advertising is still going to work. Facebook might make a change where you can no longer have a picture with your ad, it can only be text. That would be really stupid, but if it did, like Facebook advertising is still going to work, you just got to learn how to deal with it. Things are always going to change, and you have to be prepared for that. I’m not running for the hills, that’s for sure. Things are better than ever if you ask me.}

_{Stacy Jones: Besides change, what are some of the things going on in marketing right now in the digital space that are impacting advertisers that brands need to be aware of?}

_{Dylan Ogline: This is a good one. You said besides changes, but I think this is important. I view the changes that are happening is--especially with targeting, like Facebook targeting’s getting less specific--that we can do on our end, right? Facebook is still doing the targeting on the back end. But it’s not like Mark Zuckerberg is sitting back there like, “Mm, I’m going to show this ad to white males between this and this age who have a college education,” or something like that. Like that’s not what’s happening.}

_{I think all of these platforms are moving more towards relying on the AI and the algorithms to make their advertisers better. You might not have as much control, but the changes that are happening, it’s behind the curtain. We might not see what’s going on with the targeting and things like that. Facebook is doing it or Google--adwords is a little different--but these platforms are now taking the targeting and putting the control in their hands and the hands of the algorithm, and that’s a very good thing for marketers. Did that answer your question in a roundabout way even though I talked about change?}

_{Stacy Jones: Yes. Yeah, it does. What are some of the areas that you when you’re working with a brand and they’re coming on board with your agency that you focus on first? How do you figure out how to kick off, and dial in, and drill in on getting them started with you all on the path that you have planned?}

_{Dylan Ogline: Most of the time a lot of brands are making their marketing too complicated. I’m really big into just simplifying things. We do it with a lot of brick-and-mortar businesses, a lot of blue collar businesses. We’re moving now more towards into like e-commerce and things like that. But especially businesses like that, they’re used to say doing a billboard ad, and like listing all their services on the billboard ad. Whereas like my philosophy is, is like put up a billboard ad with like one word on it. Like that’s the dream right there if you could get to that level of marketing.}

_{Whereas they’re used to like cramming as much information into it as possible. Really simplifying things, every business is different, but just trying to get it down into the absolute simplest process we could. The dream would be a Facebook ad with one word and that word is the link to a landing page where the person puts in their email. And like the cleaner that landing page could be, the cleaner the ad could be, the less products and services we’re advertising, the more dialed in we can get with that, the better. Just keep things simple.}

_{Stacy Jones: Simplicity is the goal.}

_{Dylan Ogline: Absolutely. That’s something I really hammer down with the clients we work with.}

_{Stacy Jones: You like lots of white space around things.}

_{Dylan Ogline: Yeah. If we can get like Apple level marketing where it’s just like the phone in a white void, like hell yeah, that’s what I want.}

_{Stacy Jones: And then you can do another simplistic campaign for another product that you’re doing. And you could do another one for another, so that you’re actually dialing in and using all the AI, and the targeting. And your retargeting campaigns that you can do it by service or product versus the whole kitchen sink at one time.}

_{Dylan Ogline: Absolutely. Yeah. The more dialed in we can get it, and then if you’re Apple, you would have a different landing page for each product. You wouldn’t throw all your products in one image. But most businesses are just so used to that. Used to like that old marketing thought. What happens is you allow Facebook, as an example, to work its magic and figure out what people are most interested in that product in a blank void.}

_{Because you’re not going to be able to figure that out. You think you’re really smart out there as an agency owner as an example. You think you know what the target audience is, but you know nothing compared to what Facebook does. And if you can let the algorithm work its magic, it’ll blow any results that you could possibly get, it blows it away.}

_{Stacy Jones: Well, I think it doesn’t just look at this typical targeting that we do, it actually can take in your psychographics and all those other things that marketers thing as being important, but then they still manage to dial back and be like, “Mm, psychographics, I don’t know. Nope. It’s definitely 25 to 35. That’s my audience. That’s it. Nope, 25 to 35-year-olds. It’s just them.”}

_{Dylan Ogline: Which I think where that comes from is when you probably go back, this is before my time, you go back 30, 40 years ago with marketing, and the idea of like, “Hm, we can target our marketing to like just males or just this age bracket.” Like that was game-changing in the marketing industry.}

_{Stacy Jones: Yeah.}

_{Dylan Ogline: But now we’re kind of going the other way where instead of getting really, really dialed in with your targeting, you get very broad with your targeting, and then let a computer, which can figure it out way better than you can, let that do the work. And that’s definitely been happening for, say, five or six years. But now it just keeps getting better and better everyday.}

_{Stacy Jones: What are the biggest mistakes besides too many cluttered words, not enough area to breathe, that you see brands making?}

_{Dylan Ogline: Wanting to try too many different things. Most of the time I don’t work with a lot of big brands. I’m typically working with smaller businesses and then scaling things up with them, and helping their businesses grow. But I don’t know if this is necessarily an issue with bigger brands, but with the smaller businesses, say less than a million a year in revenue, a lot of them are like, “We need to try everything. We need to be doing Google, and Facebook, and YouTube. And I’ve heard a lot about this TikTok. And Snapchat ads, we need to be doing that. And I want banner ads everywhere.” And they’re just trying to do way too many things.}

_{They’re splitting their budget around, but they’re never really getting good at one thing. I like to really, that simplicity approach, really scale clients back and be like, “Maybe we will get to Facebook, and Google, and YouTube, and all these different things. But like let’s get really good at one single thing.” That’s a big mistake. Did that answer your question?}

_{Stacy Jones: It does. I can’t tell you how many people are like, “TikTok! TikTok! We have to do TikTok now!” I’m like, “Well, what are you doing for general social media that you’re doing in other things? And who’s your demographic?” I don’t know, everyone’s talking about TikTok. “We really should be doing TikTok right now.”}

_{Dylan Ogline: It’s the shiny object syndrome. It’s always chasing the newest things.}

_{Stacy Jones: We’re missing out on TikTok.}

_{Dylan Ogline: And there’s also I think it’s like it’s almost like chasing Bitcoin or something like that where people they’ll hear about somebody who’s getting incredible results on TikTok. I don’t know, can you do TikTok advertising? I don’t even know.}

_{Stacy Jones: You can. You can. I just did a whole advertising class with them. Yes. They actually have some training that’s pretty good.}

_{Dylan Ogline: It’s just like Snapchat. People will hear about the incredible results a company’s getting. And I’m like, “Well, that person probably is getting incredible results, but they probably just threw something out, and just so happened to hit a homerun their first at bat.” That doesn’t prove that that marketing channel works and that platform probably doesn’t have really good tools yet.}

_{Whereas Facebook and Google, these things are tried and true, like we know they work. And you could just be okay at Facebook ads and still get incredible returns. You have to hit the homerun your first at bat on, say TikTok or whatever, because it’s not tried and true. Nobody really knows what they’re doing yet. Five years from now talk to me about TikTok ads. Then I might be interested if it’s still around. But right now I like to keep it to the simple, tried and true methods.}

_{Stacy Jones: And not feeling like your clients are missing out if you’re not doing it.}

_{Dylan Ogline: Yeah. Absolutely.}

_{Stacy Jones: And I was doing your introduction, I touched on direct response, and I think a lot of people think that anything in digital--and our agency does influencer marketing so anything in influencer marketing as well--results in immediate sales. Immediate, like no matter what, you put it out there, you are going to get a sale.}

_{And what you do with digital advertising is a little bit more dialed into potentially that result than what I do with influencer marketing, which is more of a brand awareness where you’re not going to necessarily yield 100% sales right away or any sales right away because you are not a magic hair elixir, diet tea, something that people are racing to and they have to have because it’s so life-changing.}

_{But you’re more so using influencers to replace your traditional ads in print magazines. Someone’s leafing through a magazine seeing L’Oreal here, and L’Oreal there, and L’Oreal here, and you’re finally like, “Oh, I’d like to actually try that lipstick.”}

_{Dylan Ogline: It’s that brand awareness.}

_{Stacy Jones: “That looks cool.” And so that’s how influencer marketing’s working. But with digital and direct response, you can dial in a little bit more, right?}

_{Dylan Ogline: Absolutely. Yeah. You’re talking about brand awareness.}

_{Stacy Jones: Well I do brand awareness. I think you do actual…}

_{Dylan Ogline: Yeah, for us we do direct response. It’s our goal is--it depends on each client--but the person sees the ad, they click it, and they’re taken to a landing page or something like that, and they’re taking a direct action. It might be a actual purchase. You’re clicking to the next page and entering your credit card information to buy. Or it might be, say, a plumbing and heating company where the person’s putting in their information for somebody to reach out and give them a quote or something like that is a direct actual response.}

_{And it’s just my area of expertise. If you’re talking about brand awareness and tings like that, that’s totally fine, that’s a social ROI. Which can pay dividends long-terms. It’s very smart, especially for big brands. If you’re talking about L’Oreal, or Nike, or Coke. That’s all Coke does is the big brand awareness campaigns. For small businesses though, yeah, I’m all about the direct response. Getting a direct purchase or request for more information or something like that.}

_{Stacy Jones: Brand comes on board, it’s a hand sanitizer, right, and there’s lots of hand sanitizers, but this one, this is a special, super fantastic, wonderful, life-changing hand sanitizer. Smells great, feels great, everyone loves the hand-sanitizer. What would your first steps be for them to start a campaign?}

_{Dylan Ogline: How much is their product?}

_{Stacy Jones: Their product is, let’s just say, it’s like $15 a bottle.}

_{Dylan Ogline: $15 a bottle. What’s their profit margin?}

_{Stacy Jones: Profit margin is going to be probably 60% to 70% minimum.}

_{Dylan Ogline: I wouldn’t take them on as a client. And that’s just because that’s outside of my area of expertise. For direct response, me, I focus on Facebook, Google, and YouTube. And typically those platforms are best for typically high profit margin, at least typically over at the bare minimum, $100 purchase. If you’re not getting $100 purchase, it’s tough to make a profit, on say Facebook ads or something like that.}

_{If I had to take on that client, I would try to--again, this is outside of my wheelhouse--but I would be thinking like, “What about Amazon?” or something like that. This is outside of my wheelhouse. Can we do Amazon advertising? Can we push up your product listing there? How do we drive more purchases there? I would probably be focused more on something like that.}

_{Stacy Jones: And then why do you say something’s not going to sell for over $100? It’s hard to get sales on digital platforms. From your experience, and I’m not debating this with you, I’m just wondering.}

_{Dylan Ogline: The cost.}

_{Stacy Jones: Yeah, for insights.}

_{Dylan Ogline: Cost. Yeah. If you’re selling a $1,000 product with a 90% profit margin, you could mess up a lot of stuff and still be very profitable on Facebook. If you’re selling a $15 product with a  60% product margin, you need to be really, really good to make Facebook ads work. I would take a look at Google ads and see, but I don’t think most people would be purchasing hand sanitizer.}

_{Stacy Jones: Oh, they were last year.}

_{Dylan Ogline: Last year.}

_{Stacy Jones: The reason why we have so many hand sanitizers now is because of last year.}

_{Dylan Ogline: But it comes down to just the amount of things that you can mess up. You can be just okay at Facebook ads, and again, if you have a $1,000 product and a 90% profit margin, you could be just okay at it, and you’re still going to do really, really good at Facebook ads. Where when you get into a low profit margin, or just a low dollar amount product, it becomes really, really difficult, and you need to get absolutely everything dialed in. I would talk to the hand sanitizer company and be like, “What are your thoughts on like a subscription model, or something like that?” That’s a thought I just had.}

_{Stacy Jones: Okay. Look, I’m looking around my house, just seeing what I have. I happen to have a jar of hand sanitizer, let me just use that for the example right there.}

_{Dylan Ogline: Yes.}

_{Stacy Jones: Perfect. And then what about services? Are service businesses different with how they’re approaching or is it exactly the same way as a product business when you’re working with them on direct response and digital advertising?}

_{Dylan Ogline: Pretty much the same. Yeah. I don’t take much of a different approach when it comes to services versus products. I don’t think I do off the top of my head, no.}

_{Stacy Jones: And then what about classes with this whole advent, especially with the last year with COVID, it was already going this way. Everyone is now coaching, and teaching, and has classes, and look at this package. Is that different?}

_{Dylan Ogline: One thing I would add there, because I’ve worked with a couple info product businesses on their marketing. Because there’s so many people doing coaching and whatnot, is to get very niched down. I think it’s fantastic what is happening with online education where now there’s courses on everything, like everything under the sun. But if you have a course on how to start an ecommerce business, that’s very broad. But if you have a course on--one of the more successful people I know in that industry--how to start an accounting and bookkeeping business. That’s more niched down.}

_{My advice to anybody who’s doing that is to try to get niched down and try to solve a very specific problem for a very specific industry. This way you stand out by being the one and only and the best in that market. That would be my suggestion to them.}

_{Stacy Jones: Is that really any different than if you’re a product with that advice?}

_{Dylan Ogline: No. But I think a lot of people miss that for some reason. I don’t know why. I don’t have an answer as to why that is. Like you see people who are like, “I’m a business coach. Or I’m a business consultant.” I’m like yeah, you and like a million other dudes. Like if you specifically only help a certain type of law firms or something, you only help--I don’t know a lot about law firms, but the more specific you can get--and you only help them grow their practice or something, and that’s just an idea I randomly had. That’s the direction you want to go is getting very specific on the solution that you provide.}

_{Stacy Jones: Well that’s what you did for yourself, right? You were going over, you were doing things all over the place, and then your mentor said, “You need to dial in, and you need to focus with your digital marketing services and just focus on what you’re doing within a specific area.”}

_{Dylan Ogline: Absolutely. Yeah. I did logos, and websites and this and that, and you needed a PDF made? Like I can get it done, I was your guy for that. I wasn’t known for anything. I wasn’t known as really good at anything. On top of that, I had like nine other businesses I was running, and I was going in so many different directions. I never really got good at one particular thing, and then I narrowed down on just one of those businesses, and just one service within that business.}

_{Stacy Jones: That makes sense. And then what are other things that brand managers should be aware of when they’re approaching digital marketing? Whether for the first time or after decades of experience of working within the field.}

_{Dylan Ogline: Other things that they should be aware of?}

_{Stacy Jones: Aware of, concerned of, cautious of. Or seize the bull by the horn and run with because it’s the best thing ever under the sun.}

_{Dylan Ogline: I would go with the latter there. If you’re looking to grow, I am just absolutely convinced, if you’re looking to grow your business, figuring out digital marketing--Facebook, Google, YouTube, don’t waste your time on Snapchat just yet. If you can figure those things out, it makes so many other things in your business so much easier. You have the ability to now buy  growth. You’re not wondering how am I going to scale the business up? And once you figure it out, the ability to scale up is you’re not talking 20% growth this year, you’re talking like 20% growth every month, or 100% growth every month.}

_{And what will limit you, so many businesses, you go back ten to 15 years ago, the entire business world the question was like how do I get more customers? How do I get more growth? But once you figure this stuff out, the issue with growth becomes how do I hire more sales people? How do I scale up my sales team faster because I have an unlimited amount of leads that I could give them? And then you can shift your focus. Shifting your mindset to just realizing how powerful this stuff can be for your business, I think that’s probably be the advice I would give.}

_{Stacy Jones: Well, Dylan, how can our listeners learn more about you? How can they find you?}

_{Dylan Ogline: You can find me on the LinkedIns, and the Instagrams, and the Facebooks @DylanOgline. My website is dylanogline.com. And then my agency is oglinedigital.com.}

_{Stacy Jones: Okay. And then you also have a book:  Six Steps to a Six Figure Agency, I believe.}

_{Dylan Ogline: Yup. It’s a pre-book I put out. Dylanogline.com/six, I’ll spell it out, S-I-X.}

_{Stacy Jones: Perfect. And that’s going to be in the show notes. That’s going to be easy for people to see. Makes it easy.}

_{Dylan Ogline: Yeah. There you go.}

_{Stacy Jones: And then if we had some last parting words of advice to our listeners today, what would you leave them with?}

_{Dylan Ogline: Don’t run for the hills with changes. I think that’s probably the best thing we talked about was for those out there that are an agency owner, or already doing marketing and whatnot, you need to really shift yourself to being comfortable with these changes. Like absolutely nobody has a problem with, “Hey, I have this Facebook ad, it’s getting fatigued, results are dropping, I need to put a new Facebook ad.” Nobody has any problem with that. Nobody’s running for the hills and saying, “Facebook’s not going to work because I need to put a new ad up.”}

_{Stacy Jones: Right.}

_{Dylan Ogline: Nobody does that. Don’t be scared about Facebook changes, or Apple changes, or the law changing. Like really shift your mindset to be comfortable and realize that this is an extremely powerful tool that we have in front of us, and the only con is that things are constantly changing. But the world’s always changing so it’s no different than anything else. Just be aware of that and be totally comfortable so that this way when Facebook makes changes, or the law changes, or Apple puts out iOs 32, it doesn’t really matter. It’s just you need to figure out this new element of it. I think that would be the main point there.}

_{Stacy Jones: Yeah. And I think those are excellent points. And I think it’s also going back to the point that you made earlier in our conversation of keep things simple, right? Also try not to grab onto everything under the sun thinking that that’s going to take you to your win and dial in, focus, and actually do target in on your own brand on what you’re trying to get other people to know about…}

_{Dylan Ogline: Absolutely.}

_{Stacy Jones: …step-by-step versus like scatter gun approach for everywhere.}

_{Dylan Ogline: The easier, the less clutter, the more simple you can make things with your marketing and whatnot, with your branding, all of that stuff that’s a good direction. If you look at like Apple, we talked about Apple briefly, like that’s what makes Apple good is that they try to keep everything just ridiculously simple. Like they take away, they’re always trying to take things away to make it more simple, and more easy to use, and they do the same thing with their branding and their marketing, so should you.}

_{Stacy Jones: Figure out what’s the powerful thing you want to say versus all the filler words that need to support it.}

_{Dylan Ogline: Absolutely.}

_{Stacy Jones: Well, Dylan, thank you so much for joining today. Really, really appreciate it. I think you gave some awesome insights for our listeners and appreciate your time.}

_{Dylan Ogline: Absolutely. Thanks for having me.}

_{Stacy Jones: Of course. And to our listeners, thank you for tuning in today to Marketing Mistakes (and How to Avoid Them). I look forward to chatting with you this next week. Have a great time.}